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Discussing Bitcoin and Lightning Network with Jeff Booth

Shout out to Stakwork for their help in getting our twitter spaces transcribed weekly.

Voltage – 00:00:06:

Sir, we appreciate you joining us, man. I’ve been looking forward to chatting with you just for a bit here. I know we got to connect at Bitcoin 2022 for a bit, and I know I titled this Bitcoin Deep Dive. And I’m not necessarily wanting to go too deep into the technical side. I know you’re not building. But the one thing I do know is you have some credible insight as a technologist leader, board member, and just a really critical thinker in terms of technology. And obviously with “The Price of Tomorrow,” you wrote about just a deflationary future. So we’re really grateful to have the chance to spend an hour with you and chat. So thank you for being here with us.

Jeff Booth – 00:00:44:

Yeah, no problem at all. Glad to be here.

Voltage – 00:00:48:

All right. So what I would love to dive into just to kind of frame this conversation is you wrote in your book there’s a quote here I wanted to lead us off with the trend of more wealth inequality. More polarization and more discord is a major threat to our collective future. And it’s all being caused by the same thing and adherence to the economic system designed for a different time. And I read this on I think it’s just like the introduction to ego death capital. And what I’m really excited about and really kind of thankful to see you really make a shift to is it sounds like you guys are really making a move to invest in founders and just companies and just technology being built on top of bitcoin and layer two and layer three. We’re definitely not here to kind of show like ego death capital, but I think that’s a good jumping-off point because it sounds like you’re really starting to define your position and where you see the value that needs to be created on bitcoin. So if you want to maybe jump us off with some inflation there, that would be a great starting point.

Jeff Booth – 00:01:52:

Yeah. And I think probably most people listening to this would know kind of the general thesis of the book and that technology is supposed to free our time through productivity, and it’s supposed to drive prices down as a result. But we live in a system kind of caught in a loop that has to move the exact opposite way, and there isn’t a transition. Bitcoin is the only transition I’ve seen from that system that actually makes the transition ideally without world conflict and potentially ending the human species. That sounds like a big deal, but it is that big a deal. But actually in bitcoin before Lightning Network stored value, but couldn’t kind of enable peer-to-peer transactions at the speed that it would need to actually to change the structure of money from what historically looks like a control structure. If you run through that control structure with gold as money because gold couldn’t have velocity in gold, you couldn’t trade it around as economies moved at a speed that would match the economy, then you build a credit market on top of gold. So gold is a store value backing a credit market. And once that credit market was designed, there were incentives in the system that would keep the credit market expanding forever. Both incentives from the banking structure. Because if you had less gold in the vault, you could leverage gold more times and you could create more profits for a bank and profits for society and society in general because society, in general, doesn’t vote for a credit contraction and ensuing depression as the credit gets wiped out. Society will always, and when I say society, I mean you, me, all of us, will always vote for politicians who will tell us they can spend more and everything will be okay. And so you have an incentive structure built into society that credit grows forever and causes imbalances. And once the credit can’t be paid back, you start paying back the credit in the form of inflation and higher and higher rates of inflation to essentially destroy money. And so you see that through history and you see it over and over in these resets cause world or global conflict. And then you come out the other side and a bunch of humans agrees, we promise not to do it again. And you get Bretton Woods or something like that and then it all starts again. And so bitcoin is the first thing that actually takes that out of control. And I think a lot of people understand that takes our ability to cheat out of our hands as a base layer. And if you look through history with that lens, then all of the models throughout history must be somewhat wrong. All of our perceptions of history, of what happened must be somewhat wrong because we’ve never had something like bitcoin. Now enter kind of where you guys are in layer two and all of the exciting things that are happening on layer two. You gain velocity of money through that peer-to-peer network. So you gain velocity of money through technology rather than debt. And that’s a profound change that changes everything else. And as it speeds these options greatly, so you have two different kinds of network effects feeding back on each other. One, the network effective bitcoin as a store of value, and two, the network effective bitcoin, the peer-to-peer money. More and more people coming on to use that. And if you’re specifically talking about ego death, what I realized is we need a billion, we need 2 billion people on this network. And it’s hard to train people in the 90s, hard to tell people what TCPIP would mean for their lives. Sorry to intuit what that meant, because you’re trying to train what it could mean. Whereas when people see the value built on top of it, they start using the value built on top of it. So we’re in an interesting spot today where there’s a whole bunch of value moving on top of this network and people are going to experience Bitcoin through the products that are built on top. It’s just an incredible opportunity to invest in entrepreneurs who are building that future. But more important than that is I thought I want to spend my time in this space building the future. I couldn’t be more excited about doing it.

Voltage – 00:07:21:

That’s great. Thank you. For the last month, I’ve kind of just been planning and looking through some videos online and I haven’t seen a lot of other full-time content creators, if you will, like really dive into Lightning with you. So I’m excited to talk more about Lightning specifically today. And I know in your piece, the Greatest Game you brought up creative destruction by Joseph Schumpeter if I’m pronouncing that correctly. And he talked about that moving to our international economic system and now Bitcoin has a place to disrupt that. So the one thing we do know, especially at Voltage in our company, is like disrupting micropayments and value for value remittances. That’s really like the first step that needs to be done and that’s going to be very imperative for the next three to five years. But maybe beyond that, what are you seeing is going to be like the second maybe and third order effects of that actually being disrupted by Bitcoin.

Jeff Booth – 00:08:23:

Yeah, I think that’s actually a really good call because Bitcoin is the peer-to-peer network. Besides the entrepreneurs building on it, it’s actually probably not as valuable in the US or Canada, at least currently, as it is in other parts of the world. 5 billion people who are living in regimes that are having hyperinflation or control structures or dictators and those remittances to those countries from other countries, but plus peer to peer in those countries. In simple technology terms, when you deliver a 10x value to a market, then people start using it in mass and the existing incumbents have a hard time chasing that because through their existing operating system they can’t match a ten times value. So what do those incumbents do? They try to block your governance. They try to control to be able to block the advantage. But because the advantage comes from the bottom up, from the people most disadvantaged by the monopoly and it gets stronger and stronger through a network effect, typically they just keep on growing at a crazy rate, and then those things change the paradigm which we live in Google was that to the existing system of where we got information before and it didn’t start. I can tell you because I was one of the first advertisers on Google or the first companies who built Google it’s because of the cost to build out other places, and the cost for that advertising was outrageous. And we got free traffic on Google. So everybody built Google and it replaces the monopoly from the bottom up from the people most left out. That’s what’s happening in a whole bunch of countries around the world specifically Lightning now and on the peer-to-peer transactions now. And some of those people might just use the peer-to-peer now a lot of those people and they might not even hold bitcoin, but as they do, they’ll start to save in bitcoin too. They’ll start to hold bitcoin.

Voltage – 00:11:03:

Absolutely. Now you did mention challengers staying under the radar and kind of going after these things that are not going to be fully attacked by these larger enterprises. One thing we are seeing is in El Salvador, we’re sponsoring some of the educational pieces out there and just like what’s going on in the local community. And we’re focused on infrastructure, obviously, but outside of America, there’s actually more adoption in terms of remittances and these micropayments and whatnot. But what do you think is going to truly bring this to the broader society? Because obviously, I guess there’s like a dichotomy there’s what’s going on in America and we’re blessed to be in the situation we are here, but here’s what’s going on in the broader world where they need bitcoin for substantially different reasons. So as far as the playbook from an investor’s standpoint, what is the approach that you’re focused on? Are you focused more on what we’re trying to do in America, like Strike, like breaking into these countries and bringing infrastructure? Are you looking into these local economies, building solutions that are purely going to serve them, which could then be expedited and exported to other parts of the world? Like, how do you view that as an investor who really wants to see bitcoin and the Lightning Network flourish?

Jeff Booth – 00:12:34:

Where do some of the best talent in the world today exist? Kind of building companies would be in the US. When I say that is companies that understand UX simplicity and design and everything, but that won’t always look the same. So some of those people and some of the opportunities to build those types of things are outside of the US. And bitcoin levels the playing field. I think a lot of this is going to come from regions outside of the US. And if the US doesn’t get its act together, people will move to those regions to take advantage of the business opportunities in those regions. I’m seeing that and I’m seeing that on a pretty I think I wrote about it in the book about how much talent there is around the world and if you have an opportunity to be able to use that talent or they see an opportunity with new technology to be able to utilize their talent, they start using it. I think you’re going to see from areas that it’s most needed, drive a whole bunch of innovation in the space. Awesome.

Voltage – 00:13:58:

So another thing I was really curious to hear your thoughts on was free markets, so one thing bitcoin does disrupt is the monopolies. And one thing that I think could potentially change is bitcoin restoring free markets. And I know this is like a fairly far-out thing, but what is bitcoin going to do maybe over the next, let’s just say five years, because it’s hard to forecast further at this point? But what can bitcoin do to restore free markets in the short term? And how can it potentially just preserve our freedoms as far as the free market goes over the next five years or so?

Jeff Booth – 00:14:37:

And these are two different feedback effects. So the existing system, let’s say we live in an illusion that we live in a free market. Every single economic calculation today is driven by when twelve old men are going to press print and do yield curve control and a whole bunch of others because if they don’t, if interest rates actually go up, and tightening happens, the entire global economy collapses into the sand. I’m just going to stop there for a second and say, is that fair? So again. The illusion that we live in a free market when it isn’t really a free market. Where we’re voting for people based on taxes. We’re both voting on democrats, republicans. Where it actually is just theater. Where most of our economic calculation comes from. Is where both parties will print the exact same amount of money because they have to end. They will transfer more control to the state as a result of that and the negative consequences of it. And the rich will get richer and the poorer will get poorer because of that transfer. And people think they live in a democracy when they don’t have a vote on the inflation rate and they don’t have a vote, and how much money, how much money is being stolen from them and transferred to other people. So when you live in an economic system like that and you think that people can solve it, it just gets worse. So what you talked about is coercion. The only way you can make that system remain viable is through coercion, is locking people into the system, kind of trying to block the onramp, say, to bitcoin, trying to essentially turn into, eventually turns into a dictatorship. So we live in an illusion of a free market and not the free market. And bitcoin is the exact opposite. What you can see, and it’s early and that whole thing is changing, but my thesis about prices coming down, if you measure in bitcoin is prices will come down forever. And that is the free market function of us choosing technology. And we wouldn’t choose unless it gave us value. And that technology doing work that people used to do and we choose it. And as those people come out, the prices fall. Any other system that tries to block that advantage must do so by consolidating power in very few hands.

Voltage – 00:17:45:

Got it? That’s great. So this is great, I think, setting and kind of foundation for this conversation. We’re 20 minutes and we’ve got 40 minutes left. I would love to shift this more to Lightning and what Lightning is going to empower people globally. And one question that I have is over the last probably year and a half, I personally just asked developers and different people, but what is Lightning going to do beyond micropayments, value for value, onboarding remittances? And I get a lot of deer in headlights look, because I think right now, even as a company, for us, like a lot of founders, folks that are building, no one really understands Lightning yet. It’s so new, it’s so nuanced, it’s so specific that we’re often having really, like, handcrafted custom conversations, whatever you want to say. But what I’m really curious about. Especially as a marketer and just a salesman. Because I’m a marketing guy. I’m not an engineer. I really am curious where your mind is. Because I’ve heard you mentioned before another podcast that a lot of founders and builders have reached out to you. And you just said. It makes sense for me to support these people and to add value where I know the future is going. What do you think is going to be necessary for Lightning to advance? And what are you most passionate about and most excited about to see happen on Lightning that’s going to transform just these economies in the future?

Jeff Booth – 00:19:15:

I’m going to tell a quick story and then I’d like you to, if you wouldn’t mind, invite Lyudmyla up to the stage. But I met her in Ukraine in the story I want to tell you, and then she can talk about what she’s saying in Oslo. I think most people listening here would know. Greg Foss kind of asked me to be a key holder on a wallet to help the Canadian truckers. Essentially, it’s going to be shut down. Bitcoin is a really good use case to be able to fight for freedom and ask me to be a key holder on that. And I said yes because I completely believe in free speech. And then you could see what happened in Canada as a democratic country kind of went the other way and imposed rules and blocked bank accounts and the works. What happened there is all over the world, people talked about what happened here, right, how did this happen? And when you understand what happens when control of money is by a government, anybody, they can shut you out from that control and they can lock bank accounts. They can make you look really bad. And a lot of people will side with that because they’ll hide from that. And what’s just coming into view right now is how those front lines are emerging and activists all over the world are realizing, wait, bitcoin is hope through this bitcoin. It’s actually about the money. It’s about that control structure. So if you can bring her up. So she told me a story, and it’s super touching there that in Ukraine, she saw what was going to happen when the war came to Ukraine, that she essentially used what we did to be able to deliver, to get Bitcoin donations and deliver medical supplies, hard hats and gear, saving countless lives, which pretty wild from something that was personally such a terrible experience. Kind of what I have to deal with to see the impact elsewhere. And as that happens, more and more around the world, just more and more people, more of those front lines of people realizing, wow, what a tool of hope spread out. So I’ll stop for a second a let.

Lyudmyla – 00:22:07:

Yeah, I’m really touched and grateful, Jeff, for giving me floor, really. And I’m grateful for everyone who is working on all of these mechanisms, which gave us opportunities, defenders, to use them to defend our friends, and our relatives, especially in Ukraine. Because in the early days of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, we were absolutely paralyzed in our country. We were not able to use any bank account, nothing, and actually, crypto, especially Bitcoin, became for us a tool how we can easily gather, and transform money from different parts of the world almost immediately to order bulletproofs west helmets, and medical supplies to provide it for civilians, mainly for civilians who have to become defenders of Ukraine. So for me, it’s very personal. So it’s not just technology, it’s really very personal. And I’m really grateful that this technology exists and help us to save lives. But with regard to a case study, why actually decide to use it? Because before we watched with huge attention, and we were also inspired by massive and very brave protests in Canada of truckers. And it has huge, small drops, but with huge, huge waves far away from Canada. Even activists in Kazakhstan, Russia, Moldova, in many, many countries, looked at this break and actually just extremely organized the protest. It actually was repeated in many countries. People wanted to have the same stage, the same slogans, the same attitude, and the same organization. Of course, it’s different in different countries with the possibility because in some countries you just immediately can be arrested, placed in a detention facility, beaten, tortured, just because you’re going out, like in Kazakhstan or in Russia. But in some countries, it was just multiplied, like in Europe. And at the end of the day, we see that it works. Of course, it has a lot of different faces, and different kinds of provocatives, also try to discredit this protest. But at the end of the day, it was worth fighting. And we see that it actually had a huge impact on our societies. So I admire all freedom fighters and I admire this decentralization of Bitcoin. First of all, give us this freedom we need to unite our forces to basically be able to use it to explain to others how we can use cryptocurrencies, especially Bitcoin for humanitarian folks, defense, and human rights, for uniting our efforts to save these freedoms. Just not to have the illusion that we are living in democracies, but exercise our democracies. Thank you. Thank you once again for everyone.

Jeff Booth – 00:25:30:

And so if you just think about what was just said there and how there are a whole bunch more people in the world who have seen this and will never give this up and become part of the network and building it stronger and stronger and where this matters most. And add that the existing system must drive for more and more control over time, you can easily see where this is going and we try to measure it. People in Bitcoin try to measure it in short term through price when it actually doesn’t matter. It’s going to move here and it’s going to move here at an increasing velocity because the network effect of all of those people who will not give this up is going to drive this. And it creates incredible business opportunities, as well as more and more people, jump on board to say, well, I’m going to build on top of this layer that is building products to make the ease of use of those people using this at a rate that matches. So I think it’s literally unstoppable.

Voltage – 00:26:42:

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. That’s I think very encouraging for a lot of people listening. And like one thing, Jeff, I know you’ve mentioned kind of listening through your chat with the gentleman from Wolf of Wall Street. And Natalie, one thing I’ve heard you mentioned specifically, which is not very common in the Bitcoin space everyone talks about Hodl is you’ve been encouraging people to spend small amounts and not simply holding it. The more I move along, the more I agree. I’ve been a toddler for a very long time and I know it’s common in Bitcoin and I think we definitely should challenge that perspective. And we’re seeing a lot of technology emerge, like the Oshi app out of Austin, Texas, obviously BTC Pay, which makes it easy for a lot of people to spend. And we are seeing that a lot of just larger institutions and organizations reaching out to Voltage for BTC Pay, but even startups like Zap right. And others that are making it easier for SMBs and businesses to embrace and accept Bitcoin. But what problems do you think need to be overcome? Or what user experience issues are you excited to help? I guess expedite and just fix that would make that possible considering it aligns with just your belief.

Jeff Booth – 00:28:04:

Yeah. And again, in Canada, where not a lot of people are using Bitcoin yet, it doesn’t seem like it’s moving as fast, which makes sense because we’ve always had payment rails that are pretty solid. We also never experienced the type of inflation rates that were experiencing. So things are starting to break. People’s models of the world they live in are starting to break down and they’re starting to question this at the level that many people in Bitcoin already realize. And they’re coming over to Bitcoin for various reasons, but going to El Salvador and actually using Lightning, using a wallet, using it for everything, I was blown away with how easy it was and it actually became kind of a preference. And I came away from that experience saying I need to kind of vote with my time and spend more of my time inside the ecosystem I want to see and essentially giving an incentive to the businesses that are accepting it because I can always buy more Bitcoin on the back end with my fiat currency if I’m spending it. But I want to create that community faster because if you look at it this way and that distributed nation that is Bitcoin, and today call it 140,000,000 people that have Bitcoin and probably very call it 10 million people using it. But with each new addition of users using it, it becomes easier and easier and the technology to make it easier and easier as part of that solution. And so when I say the products built on top of this layer, you guys are doing this. But some of the products, whether it’s a Muun wallet or Blue wallet, some of the ease of use, some of the kind of the best iterations, the best technology, best UX to be able to bring more people on, become the winners by bringing more people on. And each new person that comes on through that network effect makes the network stronger and stronger for that value to value to that peer to peer value. And it’s unstoppable by borders because we have a really big nation and that nation is growing. That Bitcoin nation is growing at an extraordinary rate. There’s a bunch of people here on the call from different nations and we can trade value between us really easily through this network. Yes, that’s very early in that, but that’s where it’s going.

Voltage – 00:30:51:

Yeah. And I love so much that you brought that up because I can’t even remember how many years ago I was in school. But the one thing from a marketing and just logistics standpoint is we build something in America, we send it to Canada and then we send it, et cetera, et cetera. But the thing that I love about technology and to your point of being deflationary, is there are not these lines in the sand that must be met. It’s borderless like we love to say in Bitcoin because it can be sent anywhere immediately. And it kind of disrupts this entire where we expand next because innovation is on a technological layer and it almost kills this structure and framework in which we’ve been forced to operate of like, oh, once we make it in America, we send it to our neighbor, we can really send it anywhere. And that’s actually very encouraging and very exciting I think for technologists because we can empower the people who need it most. And I know you just basically said that in a different way. But any just final comments about how that’s going to just disrupt the way we just handle logistics, considering it’s digitally logistic versus like physically, yeah, some things.

Jeff Booth – 00:32:01:

Will still be physical, but this network is going to expand at a crazy rate. And the people that are early into this network, you could say that imagine 8 billion monetary units and 8 billion people. Of those monetary units you had 100 and then all of a sudden there were 16 billion monetary units. If you didn’t have 200 of those monetary units, then you lost value. Today you can’t see the value that you’re losing or keeping up with whether that’s the contraction on Monero units or expansion of monetary units because of the rate, this ungodly rate that they’re being expanded. And so today, and even right now in a kind of Fed says they’re going to tighten. If you can track those monetary units, then everything fails and Bitcoin is going to be the only thing standing. So at some point, it will just disconnect. But through that example, you can kind of see it performs. It doesn’t actually matter what the existing system does, it’s going to perform anyways and it’s repricing that entire stock, that entire call it 700 trillion dollar balance sheet is repricing into Bitcoin. What’s more encouraging is because the early adopters and the early adopters of the technology are going to create the best products for other early adopters and to move forward then nations that have been locked out periphery, say African nations, that essentially protect its core by imposing kind of an unfair tax there. Now you have new rules and a new system that those people are going to build value and that value is going to spread. And so essentially that transfer of wealth is going to be a staggering transfer of wealth. All are chosen by how fast you want to move to this new monetary network and how much value you’re bringing to it. The value is measured by other people.

Voltage – 00:34:30:

Pardon me for not pronunciation, this is our first interaction, but was there something you also wanted to share that you could please share?

Lyudmyla – 00:34:38:

Yes, ludita. It’s easy. Luda in Ukrainian or in Russian it’s the same. When you ask about what actually could Bitcoin or basically cryptocurrencies do now, especially in an emergency situation in the world, I think it’s crucial to think about what and how actually crypto, and especially Bitcoin can address the global food crisis. Particularly if we remember that it was initiated and provoked after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And basically, nowadays it’s like Blockset or different kinds of restrictions, basically organized blackmail by Russia, the whole world, especially Africa and the Middle East. And in this situation, I think like in Ukraine when Bitcoin played a crucial role, especially in emergency aid. In the first day, in the first days and weeks. The same can be done in the case of Africa. We just need to have instrument solutions proposed for legislators and governments in the US. They are thinking about how they can safely, and effectively transfer funds delivery to the people which don’t have bank accounts with very corruptive governments, which actually provoked and make completely dependent African countries from import of food, and commodities. So once we have a coalition of civil society, because unfortunately, voices of civil society and actually business representatives who can propose this kind of solution doesn’t hurt. We can hear their voices in this discussion. I think it is a really good opportunity now to turn discussion not how to ban crypto. Not how to over-regulate it. But how to use it to profit societies. To profit democracies. Actually to control corruptive governments and provide an emergency so much-needed humanitarian aid for the population in the Middle East and in Africa and of course to help Ukrainians battle and fight Russian military aggression. So, thank you. Maybe it’s too broad for you, but I’m happy to answer questions or even afterward in private discussions about how we see this kind of cooperation. But I think it’s really crucial moment now for Bitcoin also.

Voltage – 00:37:15:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff Booth – 00:37:19:

Well, Jeff, if you just carry that forward and yes, politicians are such as well, but you can imagine in some countries they’ll want to ban it and they’ll try to stop this. But in a peer-to-peer network, again, that is moving at this speed, they can’t it’s impossible to ban. Look how fast it’s growing in some of these nations that have tried to ban it. Look at how fast it’s growing in Nigeria and look at where the growth is coming from specifically on Lightning and the peer-to-peer network of this. And you’ll see how each one of those people starting to use this removes control from the government through their actions. Every one of them makes the network stronger. And what’s interesting and ludo was just kind of many people are starting to realize that these front lines that they thought were different, front lines are actually the same front line. They’re coming together. When she talks about a coalition, they’re coming together realizing that Bitcoin is the solution and it’ll bring tens of millions and billions of people onto it and as they start to use it, it just gets stronger.

Voltage – 00:38:51:

Absolutely. Well. Jeff. One thing I’d love to kind of talk more about is just now that we’re at the end. Anyone tagging around and hanging and chatting ego death. I’m very interested in where you guys focused on allocating capital and really supporting and bringing value to these layer two and layer three solutions because these are the things that are clearly going to make an impact on a global level. So can you maybe just frame that up in more detail than just that introductory blog that was on your website?

Jeff Booth – 00:39:23:

I want to be careful with which specific companies right now, but we’ve seen I’ve been blown away by kind of the entrepreneurs in the space and what’s happening and what we can’t invest in every single one. Some of the things that are coming, I don’t want to announce them right now. Some of the things that are coming and what will move this network along a lot faster, a lot faster as a result of these entrepreneurs creating huge value for other people to make it easier. It was so encouraging, the EODF capital. From a funding perspective, I think normally if you try to raise a venture fund, your first venture fund, it takes something like twelve to 18 months of going and raising capital. This was raised in four weeks, so subscribe in four weeks the demand from entrepreneurs all around the world. And some of the stuff that we’ve seen is hard to even keep up with. But I can tell you that be bullish on entrepreneurs building the future on incorruptible money that’s decentralized and what that means and what they’re doing to solve problems, to make it easier to use and it’s easier to interact with. I can’t believe I get to do what I get to do.

Voltage – 00:41:08:

That’s great. That’s wonderful. Thank you for sharing. We are going to invite a couple of people up for some questions here. I just pulled solely up. I’d love to get at least three to four questions in, so if you want to share yours, we can also invite a few others up. So give it a shot. And while we’re waiting for Sully, anyone else who wants to fire up a question, please feel free to. We can do this in the last 10 minutes. So while we’re waiting on that, Jeff, I would love just probably maybe it’s a softball question, but I’d love to explain a little bit about what the name ego death means and what was the reasoning behind choosing that.

Jeff Booth – 00:42:01:

So I wish I think most people would know what it means, but kind of the death of your ego in this and kind of an enlightened, but I wish I could take credit for that. It’s Nico and Andy that came up with that, and specifically Nico’s wife, who came up with it. And I just fell in love with the idea because it is hopefully how I started to say I lack ego. And then, you know, you have ego, but it’s hopefully how I would show up and it’s hopefully how I’d show up in most interactions.

Voltage – 00:42:52:

Tim, thanks.

Tim – 00:42:54:

Hi.

Voltage – 00:42:55:

Go ahead, buddy.

Tim – 00:42:57:

Can you hear me okay?

Voltage – 00:43:00:

Yes, sir. You’re coming through. Thanks for hopping up. Feel free to share.

Jeff Booth – 00:43:04:

So the question I have for Jeff.

Tim – 00:43:06:

How can we constructively engage the regulators to realize that this is not a threat? And just to give you my context, I live in Ottawa, Canada, and was right in the center of that whole blockade. And just when the public emergency was announced, there were actually two orders. There was one for public order, but there was one for emergency economic measures. And reading it was quite shocking. Crowdfunding companies had to be registered immediately. Any amount that you were given like if you gave one satoshi, your bank account could be frozen. They had a report to the intelligence agencies, and then the financial institutions were given the blank slate to share information with whoever they wanted. It was shocking. I put a real chill in me, and that’s what’s accelerated by moving to understanding Lightning. So I don’t want this to be adversarial. I just want to see if you’ve gotten any thinking about how can we engage the regulators, or more broadly, the states constructively as we inevitably shift to this new model.

Jeff Booth – 00:44:15:

So you can imagine how long I’ve been thinking about what you just asked. Probably longer than just about anybody, because ten years before writing my book, I was talking about my book and trying to figure out what is the path to the other side. And just so you know, trudeau I met multiple times in really private conversations. His whole staff has copied my book before it was published. And what I realized is through those interactions, the system won’t change the system from the system, no matter what. And so we could interact with the regulators, we could spend time, we could spend a whole bunch of energy there. And then I’m not saying that people shouldn’t, but this is going to be led by technology doing its job, providing value to a whole bunch of other people. And if those regulators or governments or agencies don’t get on board, then people will move to their feet, to other regions that do. And it’s really that simple. You can choose to stop the internet in your country, but you can’t stop the internet. You can choose to lock your people out of the internet, but they’ll still choose. I’m not saying any of this, I’m spending a lot of time here, but I decided that the best way to make an impact is to bring billions of people to this network. I’m going to invest in the people that are going to do that, instead of spending time with the people that are trying to stop it.

Tim – 00:46:02:

Yeah, that’s great. That’s a similar conclusion. I figure there are too many invested interests, too many incumbents that don’t want the system to change within Canada and us, or basically the rich industrial states.

Jeff Booth – 00:46:14:

So, yeah, I agree.

Tim – 00:46:15:

I just hope we can do it in a way that we minimize damage to ourselves.

Jeff Booth – 00:46:21:

Yeah, what will happen is new people will get elected that take advantage of people’s want for freedoms and individual rights and freedoms and the knowledge deemed with bitcoin. And there are people on this call that didn’t know about bitcoin. If you talk about Luda, she didn’t know how important this was. Probably a year ago, and now it becomes most important. Once you see that, and once you see that kind of everything is an illusion to who controls the money. And you can’t solve that problem by changing an actor, a new actor who controls the Monero, you realize, okay, let’s tackle this a different way and give this to the people.

Tim – 00:47:11:

Yeah, that’s great.

Jeff Booth – 00:47:12:

Awesome. Thank you.

Voltage – 00:47:16:

Jeff, one final question I would love to share is you have mentioned before us actually spending our Bitcoin, like, becoming use cases for It and encouraging small businesses and other entrepreneurs, and business owners to use it. How are you approaching that? Just to give others a path and a framework to approach that just in a confident way?

Jeff Booth – 00:47:42:

Yeah. So when I travel around the world, depending on where you’re going, it’s much more broadly used and getting more broadly used in a whole bunch of places faster than it is here. Here in Canada, if I was in Toronto, I would go to Teeny’s restaurant over other restaurants because they accept Bitcoin. And essentially, I would give a benefit to the organization that was accepting it. And then with that benefit that the organization was accepting it, they would realize, wait, I just saved two and a half, 3% on Visa transaction fees, paid an instant settlement and everything, and they would start saying, wow if more people use this, I could make more money or deliver more value. By using it, you incent other people to start using it. As it becomes more and more of their business, they realize, wow, this is so much more effective. And again, that’s why I said I can always buy more Bitcoin on the back end to replace what I’m spending. But I just give an I just notionally give an incentive to the business that I want to use if there.